Session 9 With or Without God - by Gretta Vosper
why the way we live is more important than what we believe
Appendix - A Toolbox
"Whether non-theistic religious gatherings can thrive and survive is anyone's guess. We are in the midst of a great experiement. I fervently believe that we need to see that experiment through to the end, giving our all to the creation of communities of "faith" that celebrate the communal nature of life and challenge us to engage in right relationship with self, others, and the planet." ... p356

Index Related Video Commentary Discussion References
Related Video

Emerging Spirit is an exciting initiative of The United Church of Canada focused on establishing and nurturing a relationship between the United Church and Canadians who don't attend church, with a focus on those between the ages of 30 and 45. Here is their introductory video.

Emerging Spirit Testimonials
Emerging Spirit is reaching out through a national media campaign which uses magazine and Internet advertising, viral videos and other popular media. Here is an example of a "viral video".
What if Starbucks Marketed Like a Church?
The new program element for Emerging Spirit is "Living the Hope". Here is their video of introduction.

Be sure to check out http://emergingspirit.ca and a key part of this campaign - the WonderCafe on-line discussion forum.
Living the Hope Testimonials
Commentary - The Road Not Taken, Wayne Holst
"The Road Not Taken"
 by Robert Frost (1874-1963)
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
and looked down one as far as I could
to where it bent in the undergrowth;


Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had warn them really about the same...


I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence;
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Published in the collection "Mountain Interval" (1920)
Quoting from verses one, two and four; see complete poem:
http://www.bartleby.com/119/1.html

I have chosen selections from the poem by Frost because it helps me to think about the choice I need to make when at the juncture of the "two roads" Vosper presents to us in her book.

A choice is necessary, she says. If we decide to abandon a theistic (supernaturalist) worldview and follow the road that the author proposes to us we, like Frost, must live with the implications of that decision. A "middle way" is not possible.

How we understand God, Jesus, the church, worship; i.e. all main characteristics of our faith will be affected by this choice.


Tool Box or Pandora's Box?

The author provides some resources - drawn largely from her own experience as pastoral leader of West Hill United Church, Toronto. She calls this "a tool box for liberal-progressive congregations."

Once we open that box, we will have to deal with its implications for our faith and worship practices. In the process, we need to be aware of Pandora's box as well. We may discover there are things in that box we do not wish to deal with. Still, there is also hope to be found there. So let's go ahead and open it!


Vosper distinquishes between public and private faith and makes clear that her focus here is on the former. She speaks of how our language shapes our community, and for her, radical inclusivity requires language that is also radically inclusive.

Because "worship" is a term infected by traditional understandings which we need to abandon, the author replaces it with the word "religious gathering."

In doing this she rejects all supernatural connotations to religious gatherings and focuses on the human dimension of what takes place.


Resources for Religious Gatherings

Human creativity is central to her thought. We do not need professional authorities or religious leaders to guide our activities. We have, within the talent-bank of those gathered, all the resources we need. Vosper delcares that unison prayers at religious gatherings really have little or no value because they involve those gathered in a kind of mindless activity devised by distant authorities whose understandings are not relevant to people's needs today.

When she says this, I begin to reflect on some of the great collects and graduals we inherit through the Christian liturgical traditions. I wonder if she has any real awareness that formal prayers, prayed in unison - even those repeated week after week - can have great meaning. When they are imprinted on our hearts they can serve as great spiritual resources; especially in times of crisis in our lives.

I am not sure that Gretta understands what I am saying.

Symbols? Some people need them, and some don't. Vosper believes that traditional symbols are of little value and should be rejected and/or replaced. I detect a bit of Calvinistic puritanism here; but maybe I am just being a bit agitated and prickly.

Liturgical garb? Useless. We don't even need to talk about it. Well, some of us have some deep feelings about that. In a previous life my pastoral identity was in some ways defined by those vestments. While I no longer need them, nor do I seek the authority they represent, I find off-putting Vosper's unwillingness to even discuss their value.

The sacramental traditions of baptism and communion? Insofar as they connote guilt, deference to external authority or promote a dependency - "when, in fact I can look after myself" - these rituals would best be abandoned.

For Vosper, prayers become "auto-suggestion" and "non-interventionist." By this, I understand her to mean that we are not addressing some supernatural being but only ourselves. Such prayers become, to my mind, little more than a "pep-rally" lacking any sense that "higher powers" work on our behalf. If it doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen anywhere.

Prayer can be retained if it is now understood as a "celebration of "human values."Sin, forgiveness and the theology that once undergirded our mainstream Protestant sacramental rites, are now outmoded.


To her credit, Vosper works her way through a typical United Church service and provides concrete models of new liturgical possibilities. She offers tested examples of how she once understood these things and how she understands them now.

Nothing is her service is sacrosanct. Everything is open to critique and assessment. If find that kind of freedom inspiring but also frightening!

Conspicuous by its absence is any place for a sermon. She leads us through examples of centering prayer, music, readings, prayers of the people, and even the benediction. No longer is the departing liturgical word a dramatic patriarchal "send-off." Instead, her service concludes "a communal self-affirmation."

Vosper does show some concern for those whose faith remains dependent on the classic words and phrases, but her ultimate goal is clear. We are on a new path and vestiges from the old path are only with us until we can give them a decent burial.

A Personal Aside

My own theological tradition rises in response to what I see as a rather subjective, cavelier and spirit-of-the-times approach to what "fits" in a religious service and what does not.

When Luther returned from Eurfurt Castle, Thuringia, to Wittenberg after nine months he lived in exile under the protection of his Duke Frederick of Saxony (he had been declared a heretic by the pope) he found that his friends and colleagues had stripped his church in Wittenberg of all previous "Catholic" words and symbols. "How dare you undermine what the faithful need?" said Luther.

I do acknowledge that Vosper is more compassionate that I might sometimes be willing to grant her, but I also acknowledge losing patience with some of this. It comes across to me as trite and lacking in long-term perspective.

"The Road Not Taken" (redux)

To return to my original image for this presentation, I offer some of the choices with which I believe Vosper confronts us:

     "supernatural" or "transcendent" (worldviews)
     "discarding" or "reframing" (reform)
     "congregational" or "universal" (church mindset)
     "classic" or "contemporary" (focus)

I offer these as discussion and reflection points for another time. Perhaps they might help some of us develop a few questions for an interview with the author.

These choices are my constructs and do not presume to confine the available conversational options.
Summary of Discussion Notes
Questions for Group Discussion

1. Bringing it home to St. David's:
   What do you like/dislike abour Vosper's tool box?

2. Worship at St. David's?
   What might we be doing more effectively?

The group decided to stay in plenary and not break into small groups this time. As a result, I have included some, but not all, of the contributions made by participants during the presentation.

We began the evening with a reflection by Georgiana,
and concluded with words from Deb.
References Related to Chapter One
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Clicking the icon left will activate the e-mail on your machine and direct your comments to us. Comments are welcome and will be posted with usual editorial courtesies. St. David's United Church.Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Jan 2008