Session 8 With or Without God - by Gretta Vosper
why the way we live is more important than what we believe
Chapter 7 - Crucial Change - fulfilling a responsibility
"Whether non-theistic religious gatherings can thrive and survive is anyone's guess. We are in the midst of a great experiement. I fervently believe that we need to see that experiment through to the end, giving our all to the creation of communities of "faith" that celebrate the communal nature of life and challenge us to engage in right relationship with self, others, and the planet." ... p356

Index Related Video Commentary Discussion References
Related Video
The Moral Roots of Conservatives and Liberals - being civil and understanding of others whose morals don't match our own.
Jonathan Haidt - TED Talks Sep 2008.

Psychologist Jonathan Haidt studies morality and emotion in the context of culture. He asks: Why did humans evolve to have morals -- and why did we all evolve to have such different morals, to the point that our moral differences may make us deadly enemies? Haidt asks, "Can't we all disagree more constructively?" He suggests we might build a more civil and productive discourse by understanding the moral psychology of those we disagree with, and committing to a more civil political process. He's also active in the study of positive psychology and human flourishing. Check out his website CivilPolitics.org. And take an eye-opening quiz about your own morals at YourMorals.org.

Commentary - In this chapter, Vosper focuses directly on the local congregation and its reformation.
Characteristics of Local Christian Community

Classically, three terms have been used to describe the nature of "the local church." It is a place of: leiturgia - worship, koinonia - community, and diaconia - service. Christian congregations viewed themselves as communities called and gathered principally for worship; and dispersed
to serve others.

Vosper envisages a church with different characteristics. A church without theism is a church where worship is no longer central. It involves Christians who are focused on "human community" and committed to "service" as a by-product.

Several weeks ago, we considered a question for small group discussion. What is there about Vosper's "Christian" community (we asked) that offers something other social institutions cannot provide as well as, and perhaps better? Now, again we need to ask this question.

In what ways are Vosper's "Christian" community unique?

Vosper sees it as a community centred on social justice, with a focus on sacred-values that are both human and spiritual in nature. Her community exists as a centre committed to human and institutional transformation and a place of civil conversation dedicated to engaging important issues and serving the common good.

For the sake of argument, I have to ask at this point - are there not other social, political and cultural organizations in our society also dedicated to these end? What gives the church a credible reason for being?

Is not the "transcendent dimension" of Christian community the one big thing that makes the church unique? Vosper, however, no longer sees this as necessary.

Is this "transcendent" dimension something the general public really dislikes or rejects about the church?

Instead of jettisoning the one characteristic that really makes Christian community different might we not instead ask - are we adequately honouring and presenting this transcendent dimension effectively in the way we live as "church?"

Public Perceptions of "the church"

Vosper quotes from a recent United Church of Canada survey which sought to discover general attitudes about certain words associated with "church."

Negative "church" words included: - hell, sacrifice, confession, sin, commitment, offerings, holy, Jesus...

Positive "church" words included: - caring, sharing, friendship, giving, support, teaching children good values.

- (source) United Church of Canada Emerging Spirit market research www.emergingspirit.ca (Dec. 20, 2007)

Frankly, I too am turned off by some of these words; but I am inspired by others.

While Vosper provides a source for this information, I would have liked her to explain in the body of this chapter the actual audiences of her market research. Are these audiences of committed members? disaffected members? totally uninvolved people? Unless I know more about the actual people surveyed, the results mean very little to me.

"Re-packaging the church"

Vosper quotes Leonard Sweet (Soul Tsunami, Zondervan. 1999) who believes the contemporary church must adapt itself to the reality of post-modernism and move from operating "as it was" to "riding the cultural wave."

To do this, she says we need to learn from others; and especially from evangelicals who seem to have studied modern culture more extensively and learned from them more effectively than any other Christian grouping.

From evangelicals, she believes, we must adopt more "user-friendly" forms of hospitality and the use of modern technology. We need to appeal especially to the younger generations who seem generally alienated by our once-successful but now outmoded "mainline" operational styles.

We need to devise multiple ways of allowing people to enter our community: to engage with one another, find meaning, belonging and participation in order to serve more effectively in it.

Vosper supports some current trends whereby church committees are morphing into "ministries" and volunteer opportunities are presented in ways that encourage people to match their spiritual gifts with those congregational ministries through which they can more effectively offer their service.

Integrity for Liberal Christians

Vosper criticizes liberal Christians for their lack of integrity. In this regard, she respects conservative Christians because - even though she disagrees with their theology - she admires their attempts to "walk the talk." Liberal Christians, she maintains, tend to believe one thing and live another; and there is a profound resulting contradiction that needs to be addressed.

We need to discard the remaining words of hymns, creeds, sermons, and liturgies that we no longer accept. At the same time we need to find and use words that better describe what we do accept. Clean up the hymns, she says! "If it can't be said in the pulpit it shouldn't be sung in the pew"

Affirming the Liberal Inheritance

Liberal churches have always been open to contemporary critical scholarship and have not separated worship and education. Liberal churches have often been in the vanguard of creating new forms of community, and in our time, that may mean "post-Christian community."

Worship, in the liberal tradition, has often been more egalitarian. That means, we have tended to focus on a 'level playing field' with everyone and their views included. If she had her druthers, Vosper would focus primarily on Sunday morning discussion groups.

A Closing Insight:

"Church, or whatever it comes to be called, could be a place where we reflect and process our life experiences with others in ways that encourage us to become compassionate, just and loving human beings" (p. 311)
Summary of Discussion Notes
Questions for Group Discussion:

1. Discuss Vosper's comment (p. 313) "We who move beyond the traditional boundaries of Christianity are often thought of as not believing in anything"

2. Name and discuss "beliefs that divide" and "beliefs that unite"

Feedback from Group Discussion:

As centrist to liberal Christians -

- we seem to talk more about what we no longer believe than about what we do believe. We need to work more on the positive and move beyond the negative.

- "recovering Christians may get bogged down in the issues of the past while healing Christians get on with their lives..."

- we are very much in the "process" of change. It is understandable that not everything we say now is what we will be saying sometime in the future; this may seem like we "don't believe in anything" but that is not necessarily so.

- sometimes it is better to be silent and appear uncommitted than to be "overly verbal" at times like this.

- critical thinking is always thinking "in process" toward greater clarity. A wise person once said - "As I grow older, I have fewer answers and more questions..." and that is something to ponder.

- do some people consider us non-believers? So be it. We are proud to be diverse, inclusive and open to new ways of thinking and of following the Spirit as we understand it!

- It's OK not to believe a lot of things - because a many things we once believed are no longer valid.

- new perspectives are what we seek, not new beliefs.

- we use the language we know, at present, but there are other ways of knowing (filters of understanding) we need to respect in others, even if we do not always agree with what they say. Our purpose should be to engage in continuing dialogue, not to try to get everyone to agree, or follow uniform patterns.

- what comes out of this process of discernment may indeed surprise us.

- we have an opportunity to focus on what unites, not what divides us - "original blessing" not "original sin"

- several participants called attention to the new PBS (2 hour) program "The Bible's Buried Secrets" - an excellent presentation on new insights on the Bible provided by modern archeology. (We need to find out if this program also appears on Youtube or other electronic services.)

The evening concluded with a most thoughtful summary meditation "When Nothing Is Certain, Anything is Possible", was presented by Marjory Gibson, a veteran of our Monday Night studies.
References Related to Chapter One
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Clicking the icon left will activate the e-mail on your machine and direct your comments to us. Comments are welcome and will be posted with usual editorial courtesies. St. David's United Church.Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Jan 2008