Session 7 With or Without God - by Gretta Vosper
why the way we live is more important than what we believe
Chapter 5 - Responsible Change
"Whether non-theistic religious gatherings can thrive and survive is anyone's guess. We are in the midst of a great experiement. I fervently believe that we need to see that experiment through to the end, giving our all to the creation of communities of "faith" that celebrate the communal nature of life and challenge us to engage in right relationship with self, others, and the planet." ... p356

Index Related Video Commentary Discussion References
Related Video
Tom Honey - Who is and Where was God?

Tom Honey's appeal goes far beyond his own congregation. For years he was the vicar of the church in Oxford attended decades earlier by the Christian thinker C.S. Lewis. The Reverend Honey built a reputation there for thoughtful sermons that disdained cliche or easy answers. They were often willing to grapple with the darker side of life -- pain, loss, grief -- and the challenges these presented to the concept of a loving God.

These challenges were dramatically highlighted by the devastation of the Indian Ocean tsunami of late 2004 in which some 300,000 people died, making it one of the worst natural disasters in human history. The sermon penned by Honey shortly after was eloquent and powerful enough to win him an invitation to come speak at TED in April 2007.

Commentary - "When you don't know where you're heading, any road will get you there"
In a nutshell, this is how I would describe the direction I felt Vosper is taking us as a church when I finished reading chapter six. At the beginning of the book I understood the author's purpose was to forge a new theology and a way to live authentically in community for liberal Christians.

As much as I admire her purpose and efforts I am currently disappointed in where Vosper seems to be taking her hopeful readers.

She seems to do a better job of critiquing traditional Christianity and even liberal faith than she is of building something credidible to take its place.

I believe Vosper "glorifies" the process of being on a journey to something new and better, but really has no idea of where she is heading.

If she were unique in this quest, I would grant her some leaway. But many have stood where she stands and she has many examples to consider from the past if she were interested in making the effort to consider them.

Alas she does not.

Vosper seems enchanted with newness - a complete break with the past - in a way that makes me wonder how well she knows church history and the misguided attempts of many who have preceeded her.

I find her failure to respect Christian tradition and the development of Christian doctrine - to be unfortunate at best; and quite dangerous at worst.

If I were to present my argument in one sentence it might look something like this:

Be careful when you set out on a course to create a church without theism and a Christian community based essentially on human values. It has happened before and the results are dubious. Here an example to make my point.

A Message from History - the Pantheon in Paris

Last May, Marlene and I visited Paris. One of our stops was the Pantheon located on the left bank, with the Sorbonne to one side and Luxembourg Gardens to the other.

For those who would like to read more about this beautiful building, click this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panth%C3%A9on

The Pantheon is considered by France to be "The Temple of the Nation" and is dedicated to the memory of some of its greatest modern heroic figures.

The Pantheon has the look of a church (especially parts of early construction in the mid-18th century.) Constructed at first to serve the spiritual needs of the aristocracy - it evolved, over time, to become a post-revolutionary monument to reason and other human values. Those buried in the crypt of this immense edifice are secular "saints" such as Voltaire, Rousseau, Victor Hugo, etc. who have contributed to national glory through the great humanistic values they espoused such as philosophy, political science and literature.

The Pantheon evolved from Christian church to a "secular/pagan"temple (while the Pantheon in Rome evolved from pagan temple to Christian church.)

Why do I choose the Pantheon as a cautionary image from history? Because I am concerned about what it represents. Those who founded it were Christians - albeit aristocrats. After the Revolution (1789) when the Ancien Regime - including both church and state - were discredited the desire was to reject the "God" of a hated past and to honour instead the values of liberty, equality and fraternity. These were the popular, humanistic values that France helped to bring to birth in modern Western history.

First came the Deists who semi-rejected a transcendent Being. Then came the Atheists who totally rejected the idea. Still later came a re-invigorated but dis-established church. Eventually, however, all links between humanism and theism were severed, and the Pantheon became a monument to human achievement.

When transcendent values are rejected and replaced by humanistic ones, the end result of such a choice is clear. The Pantheon is a beautiful building, but it is no longer a church. It is no longer dedicated to a meaning system that transcends and critiques humanistic values.

That, I believe, is the kind of "un-church" Vosper is building, no matter what good intentions may inspire her project.

To those who would seek to build a new liberal community on humanistic values, while rejecting transcendent ones, I offer this lesson from history.

When you build your community on human values, however honourable, the end result will not be a church. When you don't consider the direction in which you are heading, any road will get you there.

I like what Vosper has to say about the stages of faith occuring in normal human development.

In spite of the fact that this assumes individuals and their institutions share a common development process, she deftly unpacks the basic theory behind James Fowler's classic study on the "stages of faith development."

Let me briefly trace the stages Fowler outlines in a study done several decades ago and which he published as a book with the title: "The Stages of Faith"

1. Intuitive-Projective
2. Mythic-Literal
3. Synthetic-Conventional
4. Individuative-Reflective
5. Conjuntive
6. Universalizing

Fowler's Stage One: Intuitive-Projective

In the early childhood stages of faith development young children have no difficulty integrating the tangible with the intangible; they have no difficulty assimilating fantacy with religious belief.

Most children growing up through age seven readily inhabit the worlds of myth and reality concurrently. They believe both worlds to be true. Santa Claus and Jesus are both equally credible to them.

Stage Two: Mythic-Literal

In time, however, the seven year-old child begins to recognize that "some things really don't exist" as he/she once thought they did. They begin to understand them as constructs of the human imagination. Yet, children of this age continue to accept and participate in the practices, as well as the inherited traditions of their parents and teachers, all-the-while harbouring some doubt about it.

Children of this age-group grow skeptical that Santa exists. That may also be true about Jesus. But for the time being they accept what the authorities closest to them want them to accept. Christian parents deny the existence of Santa Claus, but support the truth that Jesus represents.

Stage Three: Synthetic-Conventional

By now the child is eight to ten years of age, and with time, the desire is reduced to conform to the wishes of authority. For many in this age group, what is authentically believed must be integrated to the real world.

Questions about God, Jesus and the church become more frequent.

It is also important to note that at this point chronological age and faith-stage parallels come to an end. Some people get stuck here, both psychologically and/or spiritually. While they continue to grow in years their spiritual growth may be stunted.

Stage Four: Individuative-Reflective

We have now come to the teen years when unabashed "critical thinking" confronts inherited reality. No longer does the young person simply accept what they are told. In fact, they are more likely to reject it. Personal questioning threatens past views of the truth; much to the chagrin of some parents and other "authorities."

This is both a necessary and a difficult period of faith development for a young person. The tradeoff tends to be "isolation & loss" vs. "safety & security." The young person may choose to think independently, but this can result in significant losses as well.

Most parents can attest to children that are moody, angry and ambiguous. It can be a difficult time for everyone.

Stage Five: Conjunctive Faith

Life is most uncomfortable. At some point resolution seems more attractive than continued uncertainty and unsettled relations.

The need for intentional decisions and a desire for resolution concerning personal beliefs confront the young adult. "Will I choose 'maverick' status?" (or) "Will I 'compromise' when personal views bump up against inherited understandings?"

Stated in terms of faith development, do we focus on being "perpetual seekers" or "truth finders?" Do we continue on an open-ended faith journey, or do we determine we need to reach substantive conclusions. Do we choose to reclaim and reframe many of the myth-symbols that formed us? or do we strike out on our own?

Marcus Borg calls this a time of "post-critical thinking." Others have called this a time of "second naivete"

It should be noted that these times of "critical thinking" and "post-critical thinking" can be postponed. While some engage these formidable challenges in adolescence, others decide to enter the fray later in life.

Stage Six: Universalizing Faith


Some people conclude that the community (marriage, family, faith group) with which they have lived can no longer sustain them spiritually. A severe personal and community crisis may occur. Commitment to another spiritual community (marriage, faith group, etc.) may result.

Some choose to walk a'less travelled spiritual path' and are embraced by new families.

For all the pain involved in such transitions, real payoff can result - such as a deeper satisfaction with one's new circumstances and a more profound universal compassion.

Personal Queries Emerging from this Chapter

1. Vosper replaces theistic with humanistic values. I ask: If everyone is free to 'do what is right in their own eyes' and there is no moral/spiritual arbiter beyond the self, will not chaos reign? Is this a good or a bad thing?"

2. Vosper does not like the way Borg tries to help us move from "pre-critical" to "post-critical" thinking. She propoes a clear break with the past and starting afresh.

Borg opposes "throwing out the baby with the bath-water" and seeks a compromise between old and new ways of thinking and being. Is it ever truly possible to begin again in the way Vosper suggests?

3. Vosper expresses a certain pastoral concern for those "bogged down in earlier stages of faith development" but do I sense a condescension in her for those "lacking the spiritual maturity" she and her supporters possess?

4. Vosper proposes some "simple language shifts" for the spiritually advanced:

a. Delete "In Jesus' name, Amen" - from our prayers - we no longer need Jesus as an intermediary - the final breakdown of the old sacerdotal system has arrived

b. Stop using "we are superior" language! - it demeans the "beneficiaries of our charity" - missionary hymns imply "vestigial cultural arrogance"

5. "The church's new mission will be to develop spiritual awareness in individuals and communities around the world" (p. 281)

I ask:

- does this hold up as a realistic "mission statement?"
- is this not rather a foggy "motherhood statement?"
- where is the substance & intentionality she advocates?
- is this not another form of spiritual arrogance under the guise of spiritual enlightenment?

(Discuss in plenary)

Revisiting the history of the Pantheon in Paris -

Is Vosper aware of the implications of the journey upon which she is taking us? Are we?
Summary of Discussion Notes
Questions for Small Group Discussion

1. Reflect on Fowler's "Stages of Faith" Does these model help you better understand your own personal faith/moral development?

2. Vosper applies personal growth patterns to institutional development. Discuss the benefits and drawbacks of this application.

(We did not have time for small group discussion this evening. Much of our plenary group discussion has been included in this presentation.)
References Related to Chapter One
Clicking the icon left will activate the e-mail on your machine and direct your comments to us. Comments are welcome and will be posted with usual editorial courtesies. St. David's United Church.Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Jan 2008